This is a conversation I had with a postmodern the other night on Facebook.
*Disclaimer: Names have been changed….ok. Only her name was changed. My name is still Jacob*

Jane
i was reading your note about Wesley and i was wondering if you think that Methodists are not Christians

since they obviously follow Wesley’s teachings

Jacob

no. Topic got off on to Catholics. Jane, Wesley taught mostly right doctrine. But his own quotes say that he taught others what he did not know. I don’t think Methodists aren’t Christians in general. But a lot of people who claim to be Christian in America, whether Methodists, Church of Christ, or even Southern Baptist. A prominent member of the SBC even said that if we take seriously what the Bible says about salvation, then less than 10% of our membership isn’t saved. There have been many Methodists that were great preachers, i.e. Ravenhill. and Whitefield contributed heavily to Methodism too.

Jane

ok. another question

you had something in there about women being preachers

if God doesn’t condone that, then why do so many women feel called by God to do so? and if it wasn’t God’s will, then why are there so many successful female preachers?

Jacob

First of all, feelings can be wrong. The heart is deceitfully wicked and who can know it? Lots of people feel called by God to do things. People feel called by God to run people over with their car and to have an affair and do all kinds of stuff. Your feelings of what God wants you to do may be wrong. God doesn’t communicate to people via a still small voice. He communicates via His Word. So we have to examine all feelings and such by His Word. Then if it doesn’t contradict His Word we seek the advice of older Godly people to see what they think. Then we decide what to do.

But 1 Timothy 2:12 clearly states that women are not to teach or hold authority over men. Now teaching means opening up the Scriptures and explaining them. A girl can give her testimony, tell a story, etc. but the office of pastor and teacher is given to the men. Kinda like, I wouldn’t eat with soup with a fork. A fork’s not better than a spoon, just different. As to why there are so many “successful” female preachers, well God can use wrong to bring about right. Even if a person isn’t following God’s Will, God can still use them. But that doesn’t give us license to abandon His Will.

Jane

okay. i disagree with you but that’s okay. thank goodness we live in America haha.

Jane

oh yeah, and coming from a Methodist who’s spent alot of time in many Methodist churches, from what i’ve seen, the book of Wesley is used more for the structure of the church and the actual worship service. as far as teachings go, the Bible is the primary source for what is actually taught in the service

you may already know that

not saying that you were saying different, but just some info in case you didn’t know

Jacob

yeah, we’re talking about Catholicism with all the extra book stuff. I have no problem with books like that that fall under Scripture. Hey just curious, I know you disagree with me, but what support do you have for your position?

Jane

honestly, just my faith and my experiences

Jane

i don’t know the Bible that well. i differ from you in the fact that i see the Bible as a set of guidelines rather than a rule book that i should follow word for word. i may be wrong, and trust me, zack stephens has made me very aware of this, but in my life experiences, that is the way i think and what i have come to believe

Jane

i still believe in God and Jesus (although i have a difficult time with the trinity etc. i have a very scientific mind and sometimes having faith is very hard for me) and i love Them/Him very much

Jacob

How do you know about God and Jesus?

Jane

obviously from growing up in a church and a Christian family. i also know because of experiences i’ve had in my life.

Jacob

Hahaha, well where does you family and your church get their knowledge of God and Jesus from? Come on, it’s obviously the Bible. Without the Bible we’d have no idea who Christ is, what He did, why He did, or anything. We’d be lost without a compass. I think that’s evident enough. And the Bible is either completely right in everything it says, or it can’t be trusted at all.

Jane

that’s what i hear

but to me, it’s all in how you interpret it

Jacob

what do you mean

?

Jane

for one, i don’t take everything literally. i think alot of things are metaphorical, like how long it took God to create the earth. i fully believe that God created this whole universe. it’s too intricate and perfectly balanced to just have happened. but i think that the “7 days” mentioned in the Bible are metaphorical. man created time and i think that it really did take millions or billions of years for Him to perfect His creation. no one was around then so no one really knows

secondly, i think that alot of things in the Bible are cultural. like the role of male vs. female

Jacob

so you’re saying that you think the Bible is literal and that you believe that the 6 days of Creation were 6 literal days and that the male vs. female thing wasn’t cultural, but binding still in this time?

Jane

no, i’m saying the opposite

Jacob

well, I think the way I said it is what it really means.

when you wrote that, you meant what you said

it doesn’t matter what I think, what matters is what you said

It doesn’t matter what we think or feel, but what the text means and says, regardless of how we feel about it.

Jacob

And if you go with the 6 days – billions of years things, when does it stop being figurative? Also, that means there was death before sin, that there was no original sin. The whole of Scripture breaks down when you do that. Also, Jesus quoted from the creation accounts as if they were real. So if they’re not, He’s a liar. You see? If I write, I’m going to go for a run today. I mean, I’m going for a run today. It doesn’t mean that I’m going to ride my bike or run tomorrow. It means what it means.

Jane

and that is where i disagree with you

Jacob

why?

Jane

because i still stand by what i said.

and i’m not going to change my opinion

Jacob

ah I see. So you really just want to keep your own opinions and beliefs you made up than submit to God’s Word and accept what He says. It’s not about what’s right or what’s true. It’s about what’s comfortable and easy.

Jane

trust me, this isn’t comfortable and easy

but i honestly don’t believe in God the way you do, and if i did, i would be lying. it wouldn’t be real

but i need to go. i’m really tired because i’ve been busy working all day

Jacob

ok good night Jane. Sleep well. Well, one day we’ll see who’s right.

Jane

maybe we’re both right =)

like i said, to me it’s all in how you interpret it

Jacob

I say it’s true, you say it’s a lie. It can’t be both. There’s truth, and then there’s lies. Black and white. Good and Evil. Christ and Belial. Believers and unbelievers. There’s Heaven and Hell. Antithesis. Two opposing statements aren’t both true.

Jane

i don’t say it’s a lie, i just say it’s different than what i think. i don’t think you’re any less of a Christian for what you think. and i’m a big fan of gray.

Jacob

Goodnight Jane, we could debate this all night, but you should get some sleep. Maybe later if you want. I know I may come across as…kinda angry or something in these, but it’s fun to talk about this. Fun and sad. Good night.

Jane

i enjoy talking about it too, that’s why i asked you. it’s nice to get the opinion of someone other than Church of Christ or Kern. even though i seem sorta…anti-religious? (i’m not sure what word to use there) but i really like religion. i believe in the science of comparative religion but that’s definitely another topic for another time. talk to ya later! =)